We have received the following comment from Copts United Australia on 28/10/2009 @9.52am in response to our post Mr Amir Hanna self declared prophet.Father Zakaria,
On behalf of the mainstream Coptic community of the Diocese of Sydney we extend our sincere and heartfelt apologise for the damage to your reputation and the harm caused.
.
We regret any personal hurt you have suffered due to the preparation, release and publication of this evil document. We do not condone resorting to the use of Islamic press to attack our own clergy under any circumstances.
.
The falsity of the document printed over the world and in the Islamic press is the result of the actions of a few with evil intent. HGBD has no association with the false document and the comments it relays.
We are aware you do not even have a daughter and only have three sons.
The letter head on which it is printed did not exist on the stated date.
We beg your forgiveness for this malice and we continue to watch your YouTube videos and your fight for our Coptic brothers and sister in our motherland Egypt.
We ask your prayers for our salvation and forgiveness for all those behind this unchristian act.
Jo
Copts United Australia
------------------------------------------------ end of comment
SMC Rescue Team joins our friends Copts United Australia in condemning this evil letter and its consequences in the strongest possible terms. We are sure that such a cowardly act would not be done by a faithful Copt anywhere in the world let alone from our bishop HG Bishop Daniel or any of his assistants.
We do not have the honor of represening our bishop HGBD in doing so. However, we are doing it because we have faith in our bishop.
We call upon our Sydney clergy combined
to kindly issue a condemnation statement to the same effect.
Posts
PART 1
ReplyDeletePerspective on the Conduct of Some
Priests, Arch deacon and Lay people in the
Coptic Orthodox Diocese of Sydney
Their attempt to use the Bible to excuse their conduct and behaviour is specifically condemned or forbidden in the Bible is a serious perversion of the Holy Scripture and fundamental teachings of Jesus Christ.
(2) Their distorted view and justification is hypocritical and contradictory to the teachings they have vowed to uphold, and positions they have been entrusted with.
(3)Those defenders do not apply the same criteria to themselves as they purport to do to HGBD.
(4) They believe they have the right to bring HGBD to account, yet NO ONE has the right to comment on their actions.
(5) It is equivalent to saying any persons who would steal from their bank accounts, assault them physically, steal their property, give false testimony against them in court or commit any number of other crimes against them personally should be brought to task, yet if they were the perpetrators NO ONE has the right to make them accountable.
This false and inappropriate interpretation of the word of god to meet their own desires and justify their actions is contrary to the word of Christ:
Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
For in the way you judge, you will be judged,
By your OWN standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye,
But You do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
How can you say to your brother,
'let me take the speck out of your eye,'
And behold, the log is in your own eye?
You hypocrites, first take the log out of your own eye,
Then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
part 2
ReplyDeleteWe are at the at the point where the very questionable conduct and actions of these so called religious and church leaders must comes under scrutiny, However when anyone speaks out they suddenly claim everyone should become peaceable to all men, claiming to be pious people acting with good cause and desperately attempt to justify their ill deeds.
These few individuals commenced this whole situation with an email, demonstration and allegations against HGBD.
NOW they claim it to be reprehensible of all those who reveal their blameworthy conduct. They Claim that others who judge or comment on their conduct have no right to do so, even when the Bible is the foundation of such condemnation.
These people have declared themselves super judges within our diocese. They some how are claiming leadership, to justify their conduct, acts, motivation, unethical behaviour and illegal activities in which they engage.
They also claim totally immunity from any scrutiny or criticism, even from the community the purport to represent.
They assert ANY ONE who questions the behaviour is un-loving, unkind, judgmental, not peaceable, sinful, and have impure motives.
They have put themselves in the place of God.
At the same time their unsavoury and fabricated judgment, is not based on the Scripture, but on their own personal disagreements and dislike towards HGBD.
They are self appointed advocates of what they believe to be "Religiously Correct Christians” and resort to use of the scripture in times of convenience and an attempt to escape judgment by their fellow Christians, Piers or and one that objects.
They maintain that only God has a right to judge them and that they will only submit themselves to the judgment of God rather than to that of there follow man, yet it is apparently appropriate for them to attack HGBD.
They continue to live in self denial despite the growing outcry for peace and the call for their repentance and return to the flock.
Sadly they continue in their false abhorrent conduct which is not acceptable and totally is totally objectionable to the majority, the latest been the fabrication and distribution of letters allegedly from HGBD, much to the shame of our Diocese.
By maintaining this position, and their unwillingness to reconsider the harm as a direct result of their collective actions, they hope to escape the humiliation and consequences or any accountability.
I wonder how they would react if they were called by the authority “the HOLY SYNOD” & or the “Clerical Council”,
I feel they fear condemnation by anyone on earth more than condemnation by God.
They pretend to submit themselves to the judgment of God, thinking that they do not actually believe God will literally judge them for their actions which clearly is not the case and is a fundamental principal of our faith. In fact I hold the view that their stubbornness will result in a far more severe judgment by GOD.
If they consider the Holy Scriptures, teachings, and Cannon laws of the Coptic Church can be misused by those with the authority to execute it, in an attempt to cover or insulate them from accountability, then we have very serious and genuine issues that need to be raised.
The Scripture and RITES of the Coptic Church enforced by Bishop Bishoy are very specific for bringing to account the conduct of those individuals and his exercise of those very same laws in other cases would indicate their will be serious consequences for their behaviour. Unfortunately many of us are at a loss as to why in these instances he has remained silent. His silence has opened the door for speculation as to why he has failed to act and exercise his authority with these select people.
For the very few supporters of these people, that would have us believe that the Scripture can be used to cover their sinful behaviour, actions and conduct, and they consider it to be acceptable, then even a greater and more serious issues are raised. God will hold them accountable for leading you astray.
Ibby
Part 3
ReplyDeleteWho is sovereign; the man who declares immunity from sin by his own self-serving claim and the follower who defends their immoral actions, or the God who established the standard in the Scripture and judges all?
Who is sovereign; the man who declares immunity from sin by his own self-serving claim and the follower who defends their immoral actions, or the God who established the standard in the Scripture and judges all?
Matthew 7:1-2 does not argue against judgment, it infact sets a standard. The proper application of Matthew 7:2 is clear in the verse itself, stating that if a person uses their own standard of measure, then they will be judged by their own standard, "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you."
The Church Rites, rules and laws are derived from the holy Bible, they were enacted in our Coptic Church for a genuine purpose. They are applied against those whose conduct is morally objectionable and produce offensive material to justify a personal vendetta against HGBD. They attempt to deceive even His Holiness POPE SHENOUDA III (God grant him Long Life) and deny the truthfulness of their actions and motives.
That approach has created great difficulty for my self and many in our congregation, much to our despair.
No one is immune from examination by the standard of the Scriptures and Coptic Cannon Law, regardless of who they may claim to be. Even the apostle Peter found himself justly criticized and condemned publicly for his behaviour, by the apostle Paul in Galatians 2:11-21.
Personally I would rather avoid any conduct that would shame me or raise the Eire of my follow brothers. If I were to be condemned I would anticipate it to be biblical standard, instead of personal attack and standards, as we are all fallible, where as the Word of God is not.
The people regrettably and deliberately refuse to come under the authority of the Scripture, church rites, Coptic Cannon law, or even condemnation by their follow brothers in the Apostolic Ministry when it is applied to them. They continue to engage in immoral conduct, lies, hypocrisy in an endeavour to conceal their own failings and misgivings, yet they had no hesitation in openly and maliciously attacking HGBD in every available media within their grasp and reach. It is time they apply what the Scripture teaches to their own lives, conduct, action and words.
Being honest, open and truthful is equated with being judgmental in a negative manner, by them. Yet it is exactly what they allege they have done with HGBD.
If they set the measure surely it applies to them as well.
They continue to refuse to submit the authority of God, the church or the perception of the community at large.
They consider certain persons within our Church Hierarchy will afford them protection irrespective of what they do.
They Fail to appreciate the ultimate authority is in the HANDS of GOD and no one else.
Their failure to follow or defend what the Scripture specifically commands or prohibits is to wilfully and deliberately ignore the authority of Scripture.
They elect to wilfully and deliberately oppose the God who wrote the Scripture.
It is not any individual within our Coptic Church that claims perfection, but it is the Scripture that is perfect and against which all conduct and behaviour is to be compared.
Those who do not meet the Scriptural standard will be judged, not by any of us or any one within the Coptic Church, but by God who has infinite knowledge, wisdom and insight into every heart and deed, and the sentence will be based solely on what GOD in his wisdom has already judged.
Ibby
part 4
ReplyDeleteFor those who claim that their positions and anointing from God, give them special privilege that removes them from criticism or censure, place themselves in a position where they deceive themselves regarding the teaching of the Scripture.
As a consequence it is unavoidable that they will deceive many in the flock entrusted in their care and as preachers of the Holy Scriptures.
If they claim they are actually doing God's work and no one should hinder that work, they are sadly mistaken. Falling into the trap set by their own standards and acts.
To openly attack HGBD irrespective of his misgivings, is in total defiance of the word of GOD ALMIGHTY:
1 Chronicles 16:22, "Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm."
Speak to him privately, pray for him, complain to his holiness, but do not take matters into your own hands as you have done. He does BELONG TO GOD despite his many failings, GOD WILL JUDGE HIM< AS HE WILL WITH YOU AND I. God is the only Judge.
Claiming that they you are the "anointed ones", attacking HGBD, and at the same time claiming immunity from any Judgement simply does not stack up and is the PINACLE of Hypocrisy.
You maintain that the verse applies to yourselves, and no one is to "touch" you or criticise you or even contradict what you say or do, regarding their conduct
Matthew 7:1-2 does not argue against judgment, it infact sets a standard. The proper application of Matthew 7:2 is clear in the verse itself, stating that if a person uses their own standard of measure, then they will be judged by their own standard, "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you."
The Church Rites, rules and laws are derived from the holy Bible, they were enacted in our Coptic Church for a genuine purpose. They are applied against those whose conduct is morally objectionable and produce offensive material to justify a personal vendetta against HGBD. They attempt to deceive even His Holiness POPE SHENOUDA III (God grant him Long Life) and deny the truthfulness of their actions and motives.
That approach has created great difficulty for my self and many in our congregation, much to our despair.
No one is immune from examination by the standard of the Scriptures and Coptic Cannon Law, regardless of who they may claim to be. Even the apostle Peter found himself justly criticized and condemned publicly for his behaviour, by the apostle Paul in Galatians 2:11-21.
Personally I would rather avoid any conduct that would shame me or raise the Eire of my follow brothers. If I were to be condemned I would anticipate it to be biblical standard, instead of personal attack and standards, as we are all fallible, where as the Word of God is not.
The people regrettably and deliberately refuse to come under the authority of the Scripture, church rites, Coptic Cannon law, or even condemnation by their follow brothers in the Apostolic Ministry when it is applied to them. They continue to engage in immoral conduct, lies, hypocrisy in an endeavour to conceal their own failings and misgivings, yet they had no hesitation in openly and maliciously attacking HGBD in every available media within their grasp and reach. It is time they apply what the Scripture teaches to their own lives, conduct, action and words.
Ibby
Part 5
ReplyDeleteBeing honest, open and truthful is equated with being judgmental in a negative manner, by them. Yet it is exactly what they allege they have done with HGBD.
If they set the measure surely it applies to them as well.
They continue to refuse to submit the authority of God, the church or the perception of the community at large.
They consider certain persons within our Church Hierarchy will afford them protection irrespective of what they do.
They Fail to appreciate the ultimate authority is in the HANDS of GOD and no one else.
Their failure to follow or defend what the Scripture specifically commands or prohibits is to wilfully and deliberately ignore the authority of Scripture.
They elect to wilfully and deliberately oppose the God who wrote the Scripture.
It is not any individual within our Coptic Church that claims perfection, but it is the Scripture that is perfect and against which all conduct and behaviour is to be compared.
Those who do not meet the Scriptural standard will be judged, not by any of us or any one within the Coptic Church, but by God who has infinite knowledge, wisdom and insight into every heart and deed, and the sentence will be based solely on what GOD in his wisdom has already judged.
Those who claim that their positions and anointing from God, give them special privilege that removes them from criticism or censure, place themselves in a position where they deceive themselves regarding the teaching of the Scripture.
As a consequence it is unavoidable that they will deceive many in the flock entrusted in their care and as preachers of the Holy Scriptures.
If they claim they are actually doing God's work and no one should hinder that work, they are sadly mistaken. Falling into the trap set by their own standards and acts.
To openly attack HGBD irrespective of his misgivings, is in total defiance of the word of GOD ALMIGHTY:
1 Chronicles 16:22, "Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm."
Speak to him privately, pray for him, complain to his holiness, but do not take matters into your own hands as you have done. He does BELONG TO GOD despite his many failings, GOD WILL JUDGE HIM< AS HE WILL WITH YOU AND I. God is the only Judge.
Claiming that they you are the "anointed ones", attacking HGBD, and at the same time claiming immunity from any Judgement simply does not stack up and is the PINACLE of Hypocrisy.
Ibby
Final Part
ReplyDeleteThe Holy Bible Specifically prohibits the following, these matters are also included in the Cannon Law of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Sydney.
Scripture prohibits FALSE DOCTRINE
Titus 1:9, Colossians 3:8, 1 Timothy 4:1-2, 2 Peter 2:3, 2 Peter 3:17
Scripture prohibits FALSE PROPHETS
Deuteronomy 18:20-22, Isaiah 9:14-17, Jeremiah 5:31, Jeremiah 14:14-16, Jeremiah 23:16-40, Ezekiel 13:1-23, 2 Peter 2:1
Scripture prohibits LYING Clergy
1 Timothy 3:8 Titus 1:7, 2 Peter 2:3
Scripture prohibits IMMORAL CLERGY
1 Timothy 3:2, 2 Peter 2:2
Scripture prohibits SELF-WILLED CLERGY
2 Peter 2:10
Scripture prohibits pastors who DESPISE AUTHORITY
2 Peter 2:10
Scripture prohibits those who REVILE* or REBUKE** ANGELS and SATAN
2 Peter 2:10-11, Jude 8-10
*REVILE: to regard or treat as vile; to use abusive or contemptuous language in speaking to or about; call bad names.
**REBUKE: to address in sharp and severe disapproval; reprimand.
Scripture prohibits DRUNKEN CLERGY
1 Timothy 3:3,8, Titus 1:7
Scripture prohibits MATERIALISTIC CLERGY
1 Timothy 3:3, Titus 1:7, 2 Peter 2:3
Scripture prohibits THIEVING PASTORS
1 Timothy 3:8
IBBY
I ask we end this turmoil and return to the GRACE of our lord, enough damage and shame has fallen on our Diocese and Coptic Church.
Dear SMC and
ReplyDeleteJo
Copts United Australia
If I may suggest you email the posted comment to US copts association.
amir looks like one of those cult leaders.
ReplyDeletePeter